- cross-posted to:
- atheistmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- atheistmemes@lemmy.world
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Fixed:
The only winning move is not to play.
I had the misfortune of needing to attend a “Christian” university for a short while due to visa reasons in the US, the vomit inducing cult speak they do at every opprtunity at a institute that’s about education and science was appalling, imagine the kids who have to grow up in such an environment, no wonder the country is so fucked up right now
I once had a study partner who was raised like that. We were scheduling our first after school study session and trying to figure out time. I shoot out sunday and he goes “nah I have church, wait don’t you have church?” “nah, I’m an atheist”
dude vanished. Three days later I notice him trying to like… hide in a hoodie towards the opposite side of the class. I walk over, worried I offended him or something. He basically tells me that he can’t interact with satanists and I just go “look, if you don’t wanna interact with me, don’t. You don’t have to hide in a corner or try to avoid me. If you wanna draw the line at just existing in the same room, ok then.”
To his credit, he did try to have a study session with me after that, but I had to end it early. The dude was so on edge, it was like he was convinced I was gonna stab him at any moment.
Years later he contacted me to apologize out of the blue on facebook. Went completely off grid traveling the world. My guess trying to compensate for just how little he knew of it.
Well at least he kept to himself, I met a guy in university who asked for my number to invite me to a soccer game and then kept texting me to join his prayer group until I blocked his number
Religious leaders there openly brag about having gold shoes and private jets…
That’s false, the creator of this comic is just trying to spread hate
I’m as atheist as they come (I’m actually anti-theist in a lot of ways but I’m not militant about it) and I live in a very Red, very “Christian” area of the country, but with a couple of exceptions I haven’t had too many problems with “Christians” in face to face encounters, though they are often very judgemental people and I don’t particularly like associating with them. Still I haven’t had to pull out my Halberd once.
The only real way “Christians” negatively impact my life is when they vote in laws that requires non-“Christians” to follow their interpretation of their religion and/or try to impose their religious views on me such as making the display of “The Ten Commandments” (one of them anyway) a requirement in our public schools, which they do in my state with frequency.
Actual Christians are much more rare and I get along with them a lot better. These people actually follow with Jesus teachings (within reason) and don’t try to force their beliefs onto others. My mom was one such person in her later years and she was the best person I ever met in my life (before and after being more religious).
It takes all kinds. What’s much more important to me than what you believe is how you behave.
It’s funny being a socialist who doesn’t believe in god. I actually support the things Jesus taught becoming law, and Christians argue the most against it.
That’s because Jesus’s teachings are tenets of common decency.
Matthew 5 and 6 are almost entirely a good guide on how to live, and the literal exact opposite of how conservatives live. Starting from 5:21-22, Jesus says murder bad (obviously), but so is getting angry at fellow disciples. So much as calling someone a “fool” puts you at risk of the fires of Hell. 5:27-30 says adultery bad (obviously) but so is simply being lustful. Jesus says if you can’t control your eyes, gouge em out. If you can’t control your hands, cut em off. Jesus says divorce is equivalent to adultery. 33-37 say not to swear oaths, which I don’t reay care about but I think it’s funny that every christian politician swears on a bible, which Jesus literally says not to do. 38-42 is interesting; Jesus says that not only is “an eye for an eye” wrong, but that if someone wrongs you, you shouldn’t retaliate at all. If someone asks for your shirt, you give them your coat as well. I like 5:42 the best:
Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Matthew 5:43-48 says in absolutely no uncertain terms to love your enemies.
Personally, I’m an atheist (anti-theist to be more precise), but I’ll say that in my experience catholic christians tend to be less culty than protestant christians. Probably has something to do with the part that catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need.
Idk, Catholic services and practices are waaaay cultier than protestant ones. I mean, they all have pictures in their homes of the same white guy wearing a giant ceremonial hat and robe who lives in his own special nation. As a firm agnostic, I don’t have a horse in this race, but my experience differs greatly from yours. They’re all mild hobbyists compared to evangelicals anyway.
Cultish practices vary from church to church, but there’s way more protestant cults than catholic ones.
And I mean proper cults, where they know how loony they seem, so they try to seem more normal to potential members. Then they love bomb newcomers, before inviting them to the special wednesday meetings where they promise supernatural powers if the newcomer is humiliated before the group and love bombed again when they’re most vulnerable. Last step is making them cut ties with non-believers and ostracizing any apostates.
Catholic King making infallible decrees is harmless compared to that.
It’s debatable if those cults are even protestant (some don’t even fall under historical Christianity) as protestants are continuing groups that came out of the reformation, believing the Roman Church erred (Think Episcopal/Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutherans, Moravians, etc. They all stem from the pre reformation Catholic Church), while a lot of culty groups are like “yeah the past 2000 years the church was wrong so we are starting over again” (restorationists). But even them, some groups are still recognisably Christian (Baptists, most Pentecostals, non denomonational) believing in the historical Christian doctrine of the Trinity and the sacraments. Then you get the spinoff groups such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. And then there are the in betweeners such as Quakers and SDAdventists where it’s debatable.
Okay I’m just infodumping now. This isn’t relevant.
No, it’s relevant actually. I called them protestant, but the OG Lutherans aren’t a branch of Catholicism, so why would Pentecostals be a branch of protestantism? Yeah, they’re still anti-pope, but they also found enough problems with the established protestants to split off and start something else.
I don’t know if there’s a term for the wave of new denominations in the last century, if it’s even a single wave at all. Revivalism? And is there a common theme in that wave that leads to cults? Or should we say that the cults are a wave in themselves, caused by some other shift in the zeitgeist? Because as much as I’d like to blame pentecostalism for cultish beliefs (and I think I could make that argument), it could also be a general secularization that strips communities to their cultish cores.
The common wave that leads to cults are generally Restorationists, from what I find.
Yeah, those are tiny. There are millions and millions of Catholics in every nook and cranny of the Western world, and plenty of Eastern crannies as well. The previous POTUS, often called the “leader of the free world” was Catholic. If you think the opinion of the Vatican holds no sway over the course of society, you must have never seen any videos or photographs of the massive hoards of people standing beneath the papal balcony all the fucking time, just trying to get a glimpse of some geriatric virgin in a stupid outfit giving a pointless speech in a language they probably don’t understand. Confession is basically just emotional blackmail and psychic self-flagellation, not to mention they famously created the biggest pedophilia ring in known human history. Idk dude, seems pretty bad. And this is without even looking at the Wikipedia page, I can’t imagine the innumerable horrors committed on humankind over the last two millennia in the name, and by the power, of the Catholic Church.
Then you get Anglicans and Lutherans which are Protestants but have Catholic practices
Similarly, I’m an antitheist pagan. it’s fun.
catholics believe that they actually have to be good vs protestants believing that simply believing is all you need
Wtf ?
A doctrine of Catholicism is that you need good works as well as faith in order to get into Heaven. When Martin Luther broke away and started the Protestant movement, one of the big changes he made was to drop the “good works” part so that faith alone is sufficient to get into Heaven. (As I understand it, the argument behind this is that Jesus saves us from all of our sins already so therefore it does not matter how good or bad we are during our lives as long as we have faith.)
yes, seriously. this is a massive oversimplification, of course, but this is one of the major important differences between catholicism and protestantism.
Well
No.
And there is no “big protestantism”
When I was on dating apps, I specifically filtered out anyone with religious beliefs (other than Buddhists, because they seemed inoffensive to me).
Got a selfie with a cross on your necklace? Nope. Same for women with photos with guns, anyone with an American flag, and any woman posing leaning against the hood of a sports car. There are telltale signs that we have different values. Honestly, I appreciate your advertising that we aren’t compatible and saving me the effort finding out on my own.
women with photos with guns
any woman posing leaning against the hood of a sports car
We sure have different values
Perhaps. I think guns are something to be handled with care, not something to enjoy as a hobby. I think sports cars are a waste of money because, realistically, you’ll be driving on city streets with speed limits in most cases.
I have a comfortable sedan because the pan taught me that I can’t rely on ride-shares and mass transit in a once-in-a-lifetime (we hope) emergency. I barely drive it. It’s a tool. And I don’t own guns because I think they’re dangerous and I’m prone to bouts of depression (I’m bi-polar). Anyone who thinks these are cool or part of their identity is not someone I want as a life partner. Even without being judgmental about these things, they signal different priorities from my own.
Now a someone with a full bookshelf in the background is another thing entirely. Or playing musical instruments. Or out in nature. These are things I value.
You know, as reasonable as it is, the last paragraph does sound totally corny. I’d be fine dating someone who’s not as much of a nerd as me, or is a nerd in a different way like movies.
Especially the bookshelf part, since in my experience, a lot of people with piles of books don’t read them (I gave the worse ones away), and making a dating app pic in a library isn’t the first thing that comes to mind.
Yeah, and most of the ladies leaning on the hoods of expensive sports cars don’t own those cars.
I haven’t read most of the books on my shelves because I’m very ambitious about reading. I read a lot, but I buy about twice as many books as I finish because I’m interested in so many topics. I’m just describing how a person portrays themselves, not whether they’ve read every book, mastered an instrument, or hiked all the best trails.
Oh, and here’s one that I forgot. I never engaged anyone who took a pic in a mirror in a public bathroom. I don’t know why people do that. Set your phone on a timer pretty much anywhere else and take a full body pic with a background that’s anything else.
To be fair, I would too with the first. But I’m European so that as a profile/dating app pic sounds insane.
Technically the second too, not because it’s a red flag for me, but just because I don’t particularly care and have better odds elsewhere if that’s half their personality.
I absolutely don’t go asking around if you believe. And i can’t legally carry swords. Or battle axes. Or even knives in general.
Isn’t there someone you forgot to ask? [Motions towards where the divine should be]
deleted by creator
Catholics, christians, atheism, veganism.
It’s all the same to me. If they don’t leave any room to speculate, learn, and grow beyond existing beliefs what’s the point of living. 🤔
If only those people who don’t already have a religious affiliation weren’t so closed-minded, they might be able to adhere to a specific religious affiliation. If only those vegans were able to grow as people, they might just learn a thing or two about being okay with animal torture
You understand christian and catholic is also the same right?
They are not
Educated yourself
lol k
Christians worship Christ, while Catholics worship … er … Cath
eDuCaTe YoUrSelF lol
What’s the point of living if you can’t find purpose and there’s no real truth
That there’s no objective purpose to life doesn’t mean you can’t find your own. Personally, I find purpose in enjoying my life and improving the lives of others. Doesn’t matter that there isn’t some grand design, I like what I’m doing.
But that might not matter in the end
It matters to me
But you’ll just be dust someday
We’re not dust yet. There is no reason why our eventual death and non-existence should preclude us finding meaning in our present existence.
Why delay the inevitable
I guess there isn’t a point given to you by someone/something else, but you’re free to pick one of your own if you want. Or not. Ultimately we just have our evolved desire to survive and see our loved ones do well.
I’d rather pick what is actually true
What’s that?
That there is one Lord- Jesus of Nazareth, commonly called the Christ, who was born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. On the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. He will return in glory to judge both the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.
ah I see. I misunderstood - when you said “I’d rather pick what is actually true”, you meant you’d pick a story you like and call it truth. Yes that’s also an option, why not.
I’m convinced from the historical evidence that Jesus actually rose from the dead
ITT: The most obnoxious type of fedora-wearing atheism. Makes me feel nostalgic for early reddit…
Oh did I say nostalgic? I meant nauseous.
I find the fedora bois on here
My experience as an atheist has been me holding a shield with them having a sword. I don’t really have any interest in talking about God with anyone.
Right? I’ve gotten “Aren’t you worried about going to Hell?”
Just… no.
As much as I’m worried about getting lost in Narnia.
My experience has been the exact opposite!
I suspect it’s a cultural thing, though. I’m British, but I know America has a very aggressive evangelical base. There are mega-churches and politicians and sports people are always talking about God and Jesus and we just don’t have that over here.
On the other hand, a few atheists I know have tried to “convert” me before.
I’m guessing it’s a certainty thing. From what I’ve seen of the American churches, some of them are absolutely borderline cults. So of course the folk are certain that they’re right.
And there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.
“there’s certainly enough ammunition in religion as a whole for anyone who hates religion to think that they’re right.”
Is a crazy way to phrase “there is evidence that supports their views”
Not really. It’s an observation that most religions have some dogmatic and scriptural aspects that can be seen as either absurd or abhorrent.
Most large religions have been co-opted at some point in history by powerful people to do some terrible things.
If you were anti-religion, there’s a lot of things to take shots at.
Explain how what i said was wrong? I understand you disagree, but none of the rest of your comment explains why.
You asked what I meant by my sentence and I clarified it.
For example, I personally find the idea of transubstantiation weird. To my mind, that does not provide evidence that all religion is wrong, just that maybe strict Catholicism maybe isn’t for me.
I did not ask what you meant in your sentence.
You kinda did.
“Is that a crazy way to phrase…”
And now I’ve answered it twice, from two different angles. You’re going to have to rephrase your question if you’re not satisfied at this point, because I don’t know what you want from me.
Someone brought up religion, or god. Is it the athiests?
I will absolutely push back if something brings up religion.
It would be silly if a Christian tried to convert you, an already converted Christian. Maybe there’s some confirmation bias at work?
It always starts from the assumption that I’m an atheist too. They’re all friends, by the way, so don’t picture some kind of weird high-pressure pitches on the street.
Also I want to make it clear that I’m not trying to conflate being atheist and being anti-religious - my friend in this story however is in the “religion is ultimately the cause of every war in history” camp.
Anyway, very basically, I’d done something nice. Another work friend was talking about it, and my anti-religion friend responded with “see, he’s an objectively nice person, no religion needed or anything”. And it was at this point I revealed my secret identity, and the discussion began.
Just for balance, over my 44 years, I’ve also had a Scientology pitch, a Jehovah’s Witnesses pitch (old-school knocking on the door style), and an uncomfortably high-pressure pitch from what I’m sure was one of those churches set up to scam immigrants.
But outside of those, the main people who have tried to change me have been friends with strong anti-religious views.
Ah, yes, well. Many people see the root of all evil not in money, but in organized religion, and that’s sometimes hard to emotionally separate from the (perceived) irrationality of capital-R religion. So, yeah: in friend groups, I can see debates about religion that veer into proselytizing, although – again – people generally don’t preach to the already-converted except in sectarian wars, which in the US have subsided as religious communities have solidified against the greater threat of atheism.
I grant, in any case, that even atheism can have strong advocates who try to convert people. I do think that it depends on who you are: being an athiest, I’ve never had an athiest pressure me about my religious beliefs, and have only been prosthelytized to by Christians… but that’s to be expected, right?
I live in the US and in real life Ive had far more atheists be assholes about religion. That said, Christians are in power, so they likely dont feel the need to be so loud.
The Christian belief is as trivially obviously fake as Zeus and has done a lot of harm
No shit.
Most of the planet suffers from some type of this mental illness and it threatens our survival as a species
What did the atheists try to “convert” you to?
Hmm. I’m going to go ahead and assume this is a bad-faith comment. Despite that, I’ll try to help.
I’m guessing from the phrasing that you’re not aware, but if you’re trying to change someone’s belief system, it’s called conversion.
I appreciate that you were probably trying to do the “atheism isn’t a belief, it’s a lack of a belief” thing, but unfortunately that’s how the language works in this case.
That is a) not how the language works and b) an atheist would never try to convince anyone about anything religious. Aka: convert. Because that would mean for him Atheism is a religion, which it is not. I am an Atheist. My inner self is convinced: there are not gods. And that is it. I do not try to make you go away from your god. And I myself: have no god. There is no church or cult of Atheism. there is no organization (perhaps in weird countries there are, who knows?), there is no path to follow, there is no morning or evening or any other ritual, there are no prayers, there is most certainly no evangelism towards Atheism.
Nope. They’re right. Conversation has a destination. Pointing out the flaws in YOUR beliefs isn’t telling you where to end up, only where to leave from.
That’s just deprogramming.
I get what you’re saying, but you’re wrong. I’ve used the word correctly. Genuinely, look it up.
You did not. Notice how every example has a direction associated with it
con·ver·sion kən-ˈvər-zhən -shən Synonyms of conversion 1: the act of converting : the process of being converted
2: an experience associated with the definite and decisive adoption of a religion
3a: the operation of finding a converse in logic or mathematics
b: reduction of a mathematical expression by clearing of fractions
4: a successful attempt for a point or points especially after a touchdown or for a first down
5: something converted from one use to another
6: gene conversion
Examples of conversion in a Sentence
The company is undergoing a **conversion to ** a new computer system.
They have suggested conversion of the old school into apartments.
Conversion to gas heating will continue over the next few years.
a conversion from Catholicism to Judaism
He is thinking about conversion to Buddhism.
OK, let’s go through the motions.
“Conversion to atheism”
Ah, but atheism isn’t a belief system, it’s the absence of one.
Yes I know, I’m not asserting that atheism is a belief system or a religion or anything like that
But you used the word conversion, as if it was a religion
Yes because you’re trying to change my beliefs and win me over to your way of thinking. Conversion is the correct word.
But atheism is the default human position, so you can’t convert to it
Humans are social creatures. World views, philosophies and beliefs are cultural, not biological. Atheism is no more the default position than English is the default language. Whatever you start off with, that’s your default position.
I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth here, and I hope I haven’t put up a strawman argument, but like I said - conversion really is the correct word.
I realise I mightn’t have won you over, and that’s fine, but this is a mad thing to get hung up on.
BTW, I do appreciate you doing the legwork and actually digging out the definition.
Nice deflection, bro. But my point was exactly that. You cannot “convert” someone to atheism. That would imply atheism is a belief, rather than the lack thereof. So my question stands.
Sorry, but it’s true. I’m afraid you’re going to have to take it up with a higher authority than me (i.e. the dictionary people) if you want to change how the word is used.
It’s the word for changing someone’s belief system not, as you seem to think, giving someone a new belief system.
Sorry, but I’m correct here.
Also, here’s additional lesson for you - you started your reply admitting that the question was asked in bad faith, that I did spot what you were talking about, and that you do know that I’m talking about atheism. Then you finish with “so my question stands”.
No it doesn’t. You understood fully what I was talking about in both the post you replied to and my response. So it doesn’t stand - you already knew the answer.
Look, I don’t mind you having a crack at being Mr I’m-Very-Clever-Catch-You-Out-On-Word-Meanings, but at least do it well.
According to the first page of my search the Cambridge, Merriam Webster, Dictionary.com, Collins dictionaries all imply conversion needs also adopting a new belief/opinion/religion.
I feel it’s a commonly propagated lie within certain religions that atheism is a belief, which of course it’s not (it’s the lack of belief, like most people have about fairies, flat Earth or the Mayan end of the world). I don’t know if your mention of this statement is that you agree or not, but if you do - how do you arrive at the position that questioning is being the same as (lexical) conversion?
I get that a large part of Abrahamitic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be accepted in the religion (and not a heretic); is it that the questioning positions you outside of the religion and thus deconverts? Is that how you arrive at the “change”?
I apologise for the clumsy phrasing, but if we’re reading the same text and coming to different conclusions, I must assume we’re using words differently and would need to backtrack to find our last point of common understanding.
No, it’s fine.
I’ve grabbed your Collins as an example - I promise it’s not been cherry-picked, it was the first I clicked on!
“If someone converts you, they persuade you to change your religious or political beliefs. You can also say that someone converts to a different religion.”
Would it qualify as changing my religious beliefs? I think so. It’s you that’s inferring that it needs to be to another religion.
Ok, second part.
“I get that a large part of Abrahamic religions in particular is to obey and not question, as well as theism being necessary to be adopted into the religion”
No you don’t, because you’re wrong. I don’t mean that in a harsh way - it’s easy to look at listen to all of the hard-line religious folk and think that’s the norm. The truth is that they’re weirdos.
A big part of most Abrahamic religions is questioning the dogma, theology, even the scripture. It’s been this way forever too.
And yes historically, bad people have used religions (and still do) as a pretext for horrific atrocities, but unfortunately that’s a problem with any organisation that places too much power on an unhinged leader.
Look, an example might help. A little while back, the Church of England put out a statement about how they didn’t intend to change their stance on not allowing gay marriage in churches. It was, to my eyes, an utterly unnecessary statement to make, and moreover, completely at odds with the “unconditional love” message.
I asked my vicar if we could talk about it and explained that I don’t feel comfortable being associated with a religion that publicly makes statements like that.
I found out that she herself has performed several same-sex marriages, just not in a church. As have many of the other vicars around here. Some haven’t. Her mentor in the church is transexual, not secret - she’s written a book about it.
The truth is that the upper ranks of the Anglican church are trying to prevent a schism with the more hard-line Anglican churches in Africa. The statement was just one of many that have been put out, it’s just that this one got attention from the press.
The rank-and-file vicars don’t even share exactly the same theology as each other. Like I said, many officiate same-sex marriages, some will not. Some believe that when people die, their souls go straight to heaven or watch over us, some do not (why wouldn’t they? Well, it isn’t actually in the Bible).
There’s a wide, wide range of interpretations and you are encouraged to keep asking questions.
Like I said, it’s easy to look at the loud people and think they’re the norm - but it’s not the case. They’re the very, very vocal minority.
Yikes I’ve written way more than intended. I hope that helps!
It’s obvious that they meant convince them to stop believing in any faith. You are trying to twist words when nobody is even slightly confused.
I do live in the Bible belt.
Just venting…
Last year my partners mother stayed at our house for a long time (months). I felt constantly judged when I was around her, so I started to become reclusive. She started judging that too. I ended up falling into depression because I felt trapped in my own home.
The day before she left, she told me she hopes I find Jesus.
It took all my willpower not to snap.
Maintain eye contact and reply “Same to you.”
“What do you mean? He watches me from the corner every time I’m masturbating.”
Should’ve gone full nuclear: “Jesus watches while I fuck your daughter from behind”
A Christian girl once told me that she couldn’t date me because I was a non believer. I could tell it hurt her to say it, but it seemed like genuine conviction.
It’s a shame, because she was lovely.
Dodged a bullet there
She’s pretty based
Sad when people let superstitions prevent them from living the life they want.
Bullet dodged.
