I’ve seen a depressing trend of Democratic politicians embracing anti trans talking points and compromising gender affirming care for young people. This is extremely concerning as states and the federal government are undermining access to care now more than ever. Democrats standing by trans people has far more dire consequences now than ever, yet we’re being treated as politically disposable by people who used to campaign on lgbtq issues like Gavin Newsom and Pete Buttigieg.
I can’t say I’m surprised. Liberal papers like the New York Times has been uncritically promoting unscientific transphobia for years that claims alternatives exist to gender affirming care. My guess is that people see a person transitioning as an unfortunate thing, desperately wishing there was another way. They ignore the fact that gender affirming care is both the best treatment for dysphoria, and one of the most successful treatments for any mental condition ever discovered.
To put it simply, making gender affirming care harder to obtain for kids will kill many of them. Kids being kept from care by their parents already drives people to suicide, and a slimy politician preventing supportive parents from helping their kids will do the same. Every time I see people claim these guys are our best shot at beating fascism, I die inside. I have no doubt that they’ll eventually axe care for all adults like everyone who was originally “worried about fairness in sports” is currently pushing for. The only way they won’t is if we make it a costly issue for them.
Transphobia IS gender fascism
Yah fuck that. Trans rights are not something I’m going to be willing to agree to disagree on. If you allow any group of people to be denied their freedom in order to stop fascism, you’re not defeating the fascists at all. You’re fucking joining them.
none of us are free until all of us are free.
I agree with that but it won’t be a single victory that gets everyone what we need.
Honestly and in all seriousness, I don’t think trans rights matter enough to drop them. Like these people aren’t in favor of e.g. trump because of trans rights. They are in favor of trump. Why? There is no actual reason. We are talking about people who want the death penalty and a small government??? Who want to cut spending and vote for the guy who spends more money??? they are worried about the quality of life of workers and vote ice cold capitalist into power??? Trans rights don’t matter for them, it is a story that they can tell themselves. It is a “reason” because “idk i am just really frustrated and I don’t know how to deal with the mental discomfort of acknowledging that my behavior especially my political behavior supported the creation of the situation that I strongly dislike” just isn’t comfortable for them.
Trans rights are more than extremely important but politically, they just don’t matter. Dropping them will change nothing, but make us worse people.
To say it another way, even if you were to drop support for trans rights, you wouldn’t gain much of anything.
Yeah, thanks for putting it that way.
Like I said elsewhere, they already held these views and see now as the perfect time to push them. They think that because the fascists won they don’t need to try as hard, even though them not sacrificing their pet beliefs on TikTok and Palestine contributed to that result. They think Harris being a brown woman is where they failed rather than her being Biden’s VP.
Oh my friend. You haven’t figured out that the Democrats are just really “right light” without a backbone?
Would’ve they been better than Trump? 100% yes. But anything can be better than Trump’s Republicans.
There is no real social left movement in the US. Maybe Bernie and AOC get close to it but still quite centrist.
So, the Democrats are the right throwing some social crumbs around but supporting regressive policies. Once people realize that, a real social movement can start.
There are left movements, though. There’s the Democratic Socialists of the USA.
I’ve known this for years. What I’m pissed about is liberal asshats who think transphobes are the messiahs who will save their already dead rule of law.
Giving up on trans rights is the definition of losing to fascism.
Fascism is an ideology that’s turtules all the way down. Once you exclude one group you have built the social infrastructure and mechanisms to exclude any other group. The only defense is to accept and include all groups.
This. This is how genocide operates. The number of bystanders gets lower and lower as they are carted off into the camps or turn full blown fascist. It’s always like this. Armenia. Germany. Rwanda. It’s a set script.
RFK has made no secret of wanting to take away meds from mentally ill people and putting them into farming camps.
Trans right is a Canary issue for me. If you are willing to compromise your values there, it tells me you are willing to compromise in other areas.
Trans rights are human rights. What would be the point of opposing fascism if it’s not to uphold human rights?
because it’s worse for business than neoliberalism was. The rich agreed to fascism because they needed to redirect populist sentiment, but the neoliberal model really was optimal for them.
They created a culture war to distract people from the class war they are winning.
Based on a recent video i viewed of tech CEOs practically fellating Trump on camera, I would say business sentiment regarding fascism is mixed, at least.
They wish they didn’t have to kiss the ring, but at least they aren’t seeing harsher regulation from radical communist liberals.
I’ve seen a depressing trend of Democratic politicians embracing anti trans talking points and compromising gender affirming care for young people.
Burn the DNC to the ground, these impotent acts of betrayal of the voting base that fail to meaningfully activate anyone in return are the unmistakable indicators of a terminal disease in the party.
The sooner we do it, the sooner we can start building a real party on the left in the US.
This isn’t redeemable or reformable.
Make a third party that appeals regionally at first than expand nationwide to replace the democrats.
It’s a mathematical certainty that any work on a third party will only help the party that it is most unlike. Seriously, you aren’t the first to think “fuck it, let’s just have a NEW party.” You will spend your days actively harming your interests until you die. And here’s the part where you tell me it needs to get worse before it gets better. No, it doesn’t. It needs to get better incrementally over long time scales and that is the ONLY way anything has ever improved anywhere. Do the work. This nonsense about burning down the world over a single issue is performative crap we don’t have time for.
the proper way is to do a hostile takeover of the Democratic party.
Trump wasn’t really a Republican, he was a nationalist (in 2016) and now a fascist (in 2024.) Republicans were neocons, libertarians and classical conservatives.
in 2017 he purged the actual Republicans from the Party, and filled its hollowed husk with MAGA. by 2024, the takeover was complete. actual Republicans (e.g. Liz Cheney, Romney) abandoned ship. the name is the only thing that stayed the same.
so, we need to do the same with the DNC. the formula is simple. hijack the primaries, shove the existing leadership out and show the Republicans what “socialism” really means.
the proper way is to do a hostile takeover of the Democratic party.
so, we need to do the same with the DNC. the formula is simple. hijack the primaries, shove the existing leadership out and show the Republicans what “socialism” really means.
Amen.
Most of them voluntarily left though
Agreed.
This is why first-past-the-post needs to be replaced with the single transferable vote. The rules were originally designed by the rich for the rich.
If you believe that’s where your energy is best spent, I wish you success. It’s probably a matter of planting trees whose shade you’ll never sit in, but there are healthy alternatives we can promote.
Starting a third party in a FPTP system? That’s just suicide.
There is another way: run for office as a Democrat and be the change you want to see in the party. What Bernie and AOC did. We need a few dozen more of them, and things will actually start moving.
What the tea party did. What MAGA did. What Mandami is doing.
Changing the existing party is what works. Demolishing it does not.
We can only hope Elon starts his third party he’s threatened a couple times.
The Republican party replaced the Whig party and the Bull Moose party came close.
It took centuries for women to earn the right to vote, so I happily champion decent causes until their full fruition.
That’s the way to think: long arc.
Rosa Parks wasn’t the first person who refused to give up her seat on the bus. There were absolutely other cases that could have been pushed through the courts earlier. But Parks was an ideal figure: clean record, old, harmless little lady. For her story to go down in history, others had to be passed over. It’s what we call picking our battles.
Starting a third party in a FPTP system? That’s just suicide.
It worked in Canada, India and the UK.
they have Parliamentary systems :/
the US is fucked because the President is enormously powerful and elected directly by the people.
The president is not elected directly by the people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election
“The election of the president and vice president of the United States is an indirect election…”
mamdani is the first of these and the democratic party won’t even endorse him; what makes you think they’ll behave any different for others?
Because they will see that he wins anyway
If you haven’t noticed, it doesn’t fucking matter. Mamdani is the candidate and assuming people turn out he will be the mayor.
They’ll never “endorse” their replacements, nor do they need to.
As others have pointed out here, this kind of takeover of an existing part is exactly what Trump did. You may remember that he did it over the strenuous objections and through stiff resistance of the party.
He did this through his mastery of media, and capturing 30% of the voters in this country with his performance through the process. They eventually realized that Trump was the best card they had to play.
As Bernie and AOC showed, you can muster enough popular support in your home constituency that pushback from the bureaucrats doesn’t matter.
I think the sad news for a lot of people in this thread is that 30% of Americans are not actually onboard with their agenda for a more socialistic America. So while isolated successes may be possible, and help things progress, there simply isn’t going to be a groundswell of support like Trump received. The Democrats are the limp plastic bags of cold soup that they are because the voters themselves are complacent with the status quo and not really willing to roll the dice on it. Sure, plenty are poor enough to almost certainly benefit, but they don’t think of themselves that way. No one’s lower class - everyone’s on their way to joining the “I got mine” club anytime now. And that’s America. This is it I’m afraid. This is who we are.
This nonsense about burning down the world over a single issue is performative crap we don’t have time for.
It isn’t a single issue. It simply isn’t. Regardless, telling trans people and their allies online that fighting for their rights is “nonsense” amounting to “performative crap”, seems like transphobia to me.
Look at this guy strategizing like he has multiple fair and free elections left!
Woman* and it’s always worth talking about improving democracy. It’s not like every US election is automatically “rigged” after Trump got a second term. Check Portland’s electoral system.
We dont have to give up on any single group to fight MAGA morons. Just start calling MAGA what they are, the pedo party.
They’re a party of groomers, in every sense of the word. They are heavily invested in brainwashing kids from an early age to serve their authoritarian order, while their system of unchecked power over children perpetuates child abuse both sexual and non sexual. They rely on grooming emotionally lost young men to be their foot soldiers and enforcers, encouraging them to bully and abuse women and minorities while stealing everything of value they produce. They are everything they accuse their enemies of being.
Mamdani needs to become mayor of New York already to show these clown democrats how to do their jobs.
They are doing their jobs. They aren’t stupid, they just don’t work for us.
And we shouldn’t be voting for anyone who won’t work for us.
The problem is that it can be difficult to tell who that is until they’re already elected. Kind of like how a driving instructor has no idea how the next person in the test car is going to perform until they actually do it.
And then once they’re elected there’s a distinct advantage for incumbents to stay elected, unless they’ve really fucked up somehow.
Republicans managed to do it. They have an entire party perfectly willing to destroy the country for the billionaire oligarchs from the very top all the way down to the town dog catcher.
That’s because the Republican base is a literal cult
Personally, I don’t see a difference between combating fascism, and gender rights, gender affirming care, and recognizing people as the gender that they feel most comfortable as. I also don’t see a difference between combating fascism and LGBTQIA+ rights in general.
Fascists would have all of those rights stripped away from people. So bring pro LGBTQIA+ and being against fascism, is essentially the same thing in my mind.
The thing about it is, you can be against fascism, but not pro LGBTQIA+, but it would be, in my mind, impossible to be pro LGBTQIA+ and not be anti fascist.
So anyone who wants to deny LGBTQIA+, gender affirming care, or the recognition of people’s gender, but who is self-proclaiming to be against fascism, is either under some confused notion of what fascism would entail, trying to find some “middle ground” which doesn’t really exist, or they’re still fascist, but only if their way of life is what’s being promoted under fascism, and we can it something other than fascism.
All of those people can suck my dick.
LGBTQIA+ rights are human rights.
EDIT: I want to add that I’m not LGBTQIA+. I just believe that anyone who is, should have the same rights to be just as happy, or as miserable, as everyone who isn’t. I am an ally. I am a humanist.
I get it, but conservatism has taken over by ratcheting the country to the right. They’ve been patiently putting people in positions of power from dog catcher up to the presidency for the last forty years.
Progressives aren’t satisfied with ratcheting the country to the left. It’s all or nothing.
No “buts”.
Liberation cannot be done with giving it to everyone, provided that fascists get buried 6 ft under.
It’s not liberation until it’s for everyone. But we won’t get there in one legislative fight, or even one legislative session, once and for all. It will always need to be fought for.
Conservatives won’t turn down a smaller victory for one that’s out of reach. That’s why they’re winning.
Ansolutely agree, people didn’t turn to being pro-abortion instantly. But with a long and gradual strifle.
But we should be aware to never give up that which we already have.
The country never moves towards the left or anything closely resembling egalitarianism in any meaningful way. Gay marriage has been one of the few major wins in recent history, but that’s not “ratcheting the country to the left”. You could be the most staunch supporter of capitalism and “free markets” in the world, literally the opposite of egalitarianism, and still support trans and gay rights/be socially liberal.
Progressives aren’t satisfied with ratcheting the country to the left. It’s all or nothing.
The Democrats aren’t satisfied until the country is completely to the right and they aren’t interested in winning elections or seriously fighting MAGA - their focus is firmly on suppressing the left.
Progressives do not hold significant power in elected office or in the DNC. Bernie Sanders had two primaries rigged against him, and David Hogg was recently ousted from his position as Vice Chair of the DNC
for gender diversity reasonsbecause he was pushing progressive primary challengers.Ken Martin also ensured DNC officer neutrality in future primaries this year, in order to neuter David Hogg not long after he committed to funding these challengers (which is likely why David Hogg refused to run for re-election). Democrats only have a problem with rigging primaries when progressives are the ones getting support.
Progressives are unpredictable and difficult to control, may be of the socialist variety, and disincentivize major donors - which the DNC and Democratic party rely on.
“Ending” slavery, suffrage, the New Deal, income tax, * gay rights… They were all steps to the left.
I’m not arguing that the democratic party as it stands is the vehicle to institute a just and fair society. But I did watch the Tea Party subvert and consume the republicans. It can be done to the democratic party as well. It has to be in tandem with regular wins, like how the conservatives did it.
*I can’t believe I left out Roe v Wade
“Ending” slavery
Slavery only increased under neoliberal policy. Where does our lithium come from? Slaves and child slaves. Our cocoa? In part, child slaves. Where do most of our goods come from? Sweat shops and exploited third-world countries. Our prison labor, which has absolutely exploded under neoliberal policy, is also by definition slave labor. Before Trump, over 40% of our agricultural labor force were undocumented immigrants - modern slaves.
I’m sure if you looked hard enough, you’d see how much suffering and exploitation went into every single item around you.
suffrage, the New Deal, income tax
Ancient history, and none of these things besides suffrage truly represent the left, which is commonly associated with socialism and egalitarianism - the left was historically coined to describe socialists.
Capitalism is fundamentally opposed to egalitarianism, liberal and leftist ideology, and democracy. And it’s worth mentioning Democrats are further right than most European center-right parties.
gay rights
You could even be a bigger fascist and authoritarian than Trump, including being a Christian, and be in support of gay rights. See Peter Thiel, self-proclaimed right-libertarian, who is the opposite of a libertarian in practice.
Democrats flying the rainbow flag is just as gross and meaningless as corporations doing it: it’s branding. Except now the branding requires that we sacrifice trans people to appeal to
centristsRepublicans/old-school conservatives and try to siphon voters from MAGA. Meanwhile, gay marriage is likely going to quickly be dismantled like everything else, while Democrats stand silent.But I did watch the Tea Party subvert and consume the republicans. It can be done to the democratic party as well.
Will this come in time to address the fresh water crisis? Will it come in time to address the climate crisis? How many trans people will die by suicide because it’s “too radical” to support them even a little bit? How many people will die because of preventable disease? How many people will forego higher education? How many people will be laid off and rendered homeless until we establish UBI? How many child slaves will be sacrificed in the mines so we can have new iPhones every year? I could go on and on and on.
It has to be in tandem with regular wins, like how the conservatives did it.
Progressives have been playing ball way more than you suggest. Enough. It’s become a game of dodgeball where progressives can’t throw, only take hits from the Democrats and everybody else. Shifting to the right is not an effective strategy for Democrats, not even a little bit. 1/3 of the country doesn’t vote, why the fuck is nobody looking at that group?
Saw your edit:
*I can’t believe I left out Roe v Wade
A Supreme Court decision. Which was never codified into law by Democrats…
You’re going to sit there and say you wouldn’t have voted for fucking Lincoln because he didn’t “really” end slavery?
I’d like to believe that I would be arguing for the abolition of all social, race, and class-based hierarchies, among other things, but this isn’t then and I wasn’t born in that time period.
Suppose I were born at that time, had access to a very good education, and possessed roughly the same spirit as I do now; I’d likely be politically active and influencing people like Lincoln as best I could.
Nobody is entitled to another’s vote though, and I’ll just leave it at that.
Edit - I thought on it and I feel it’s necessary to amend this for those curious why I would respond in such a way:
During the 1858 debates with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln stated that the “physical difference between the white and black races … will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality”. He added that "there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
If it came down to it, I’d likely vote for Lincoln. Regardless of some of his statements, he showed deep principles:
“I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong,” he stated. “I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel.”
Very few involved with politics in the present day are even 1% as principled and vocal about what they believe to be right as Lincoln - he was so incredibly ahead of his time.
Well I would definitely 100% be supporting moderate pussy Lincoln because the Confederacy fucking sucks and I don’t want their supporter to win.
Sorry to hear you were on the fence about it.
There were historically people calling Lincoln’s abolitionist ideas not radical enough, so bite me.
You’d likely unquestionably vote for a self-proclaimed Zionist committing a genocide, and that was your point in reality - to shame me for having principles in general and in particular in regards to how I vote. You are free to push the Democratic party to the left or away from supporting genocide at any point instead of attacking me - I don’t vote for genocide and my vote must be earned through representation.
It’s basic democracy, the Democrats don’t automatically earn or own my vote because they play at being socially liberal when it suits them.
I could imagine you arguing to Lincoln that he actually should be less radical, that he should compromise on his principle of seeing slavery as being wrong. Just allow a little slavery Lincoln… c’mon man.
I get it, but
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Constructive and useful. Go fuck yourself.
They make a great point, but nope. Gotta make them feel stupid for thinking about the obvious problem with idealism.
You think basic human rights are idealism?
No wonder the Democrat’s approval rating is so low. Your party is so spineless.
Nice twisting of the words as usual. Im not even american you imbecill.
I think believing that everyone can change their mind because you say so is idealism.
Fucking oneself is actually quite healthy. You should try it, you feel repressed
If every time you give in to their demands and they take a step further to the right and ask for more with the intention of surviving to fight to protect what you value another day, you will eventually lose what you value and have nothing left to defend.
Which is why the whole narrative that we either compromise or continue to do the same all-or-nothing approach is a false dichotomy spread by our enemies.
You don’t capitulate, you don’t conceded, you redirect.
We need to leverage this into a class-war, we are SO close to it, every time we get close to large-scale movements against capital, the right throws some hissy fit about bathrooms or drag queens and we all get distracted trying to uselessly butt-heads instead of pushing our whole country towards the objectively key solution of attacking money.
The conservative chuds who give Trump and his ilk so much power and political capital are dumber than boards, they can be captured, they can be used, they can be pushed towards goals mindlessly if you give them the right WWE spectacle story to follow. The things that don’t work on them are the lectures, the speeches, the appeals to empathy and other ideas they just can’t connect with if they don’t have clear-cut villains and heroes and a storyline that they think impacts them personally.
The rich elites are just SITTING there, safe in the fact that every time the nation’s liberals start to feel uncomfortable, they can pull some levers and suddenly everyone is focused on Epstein and “lol president bad” narratives. This is why we’re not getting anywhere, we’re falling for the tactics. We’re getting pulled into the endless debates that don’t go anywhere. If we could even make them twitch, if we could get them to falter and pause and worry that they’ve stretched us too thin for a moment, we can capitalize on that, we can install our own local leaders, our own judges, our own county and city board members. It’s slow, painful and takes focus on a goal I just don’t see the left in this country rising to sadly.
You guys don’t get it. We need to concede the civil rights of a marginalized group to defeat fascism!
if the Social Democrats would just concede the Jewish Question, they could have kept the Nazis out of power!
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